One day, when we’re old with our families and grandchildren and not a care in the world, we’ll meet and thrash out our political differences and stab each other with chopsticks but fail to silence the other because the mind is willing but flesh is weak.

I mentioned before that I won’t be a politician because there’s already too much dirt people can find on me online.

I just remembered it when we learned Geography at school that Tokyo had higher population density than Beijing (then). If you have been to Tokyo, you won’t feel much difference (population density) there than in BJ. You are right, BJ has higher population density than Tokyo now, but my point was - that’s not the reason why the traffic is unmanageable in BJ. When BJ had lower density, it was a mess too. I am not an expert in traffic. I mentioned Tokyo and BJ is because they have been compared in many studies to help improve the traffic in BJ (i.e. http://www.ville-en-mouvement.com/articles/lu_huapu02.pdf ) over the past decade. And the fact is, as every expert has pointed out, the main problem is the traffic system (i.e.channelization facility, etc) in BJ (Tokyo just has a better system).

I will repeat it - the mistake (huge population) was made by one person (because we had only one power, one voice). And that mistake (and his other mistakes) are the reasons why we should only listen to one voice. We just keep walking in the circle.

Of course large population is a big problem, but sometimes it is just used as one of those handy excuses (for not changing anything).

”not well educated. i guess we all agree about the situation in China.”
No, I didn’t agree. It is the same logic here. As I mentioned, the gov’s expenditure (3%) on education has been among the lowest in the world for the last 15 years (while the economy grew at an average rate of more than 10% since 1990), and the educational system has been set up to produce brain-washed nationalists, they have made sure that people are not ready for two (or more) voices.

You said a lot of people are ”not well educated”, a lot of people have ”bad views”. How do you know that those people with ”bad views” are not in the gov? What if 70% or 90% of them all have ”bad views”? There are conflicts and different opinions in the gov , some support fast liberal ways, some oppose it. There are a lot of struggling, but of course those who supported fast liberal ways usually lose. So you are just supporting whichever side wins? And whichever side wins, their decision/policy is ”what’s good for this country” ? (but what if it could be the other side wins and a totally different policy)

”To choose when and how to open ppl’s mind up is not our duty, it’s the policy of China gov.”
That’s what N.Korean people believe too.
So you are saying if the gov’s policy was to have complete democracy today, you would support that too (there was a guy Zhxx in the gov who tried but was shut up, he could have won)? Just because the gov says so?

It’s interesting. It reminds me about some Conservatives would say ” well, he’s our president. I think we should trust him. I am sure he’s doing what’s good for the country”. It is just like how Christian sees Jesus.. ”well, Jesus said so. He must have his reasons… We shall not question.”.

”Who can be responsible for if there will have more ppl die by violence?”
Who’s responsible for those death 20 years ago? You tell me. How many protests in China every year? Tens of thousands. If you haven’t heard about it, you probably can figure out why yourself. How many people are arrested (or died) every year for various ill-defined ”crimes” involving ”threats” to ”the states”? (average) 6 digital numbers/year. People like Ai W ei W ei are not risking their lives for anything else, but for the poor and oppressed. They deserve to be put in prison because they do not care about the rich and middle class people (the minority) who are benefited by the policies.
It was not off topic. I mentioned Shenzhen Mayor (I’ll repeat it) because my point was what if 90% of the people in the gov are like him? (BTW, it is not just sex and bribes, he basically caused the real estate market in SZ collapsed!) Not saying they are, but what if those people are even dumber than my uncle Leo and more judgemental than my aunt Mary (sadly, they are)? Yes, Shen Shui Bian, Lu Wu Xuan… Again, that was my point - you cannot depend on the person in power (because no one can guarantee if they are the perfect ”philosopher kings” as Plato put it), that’s why you need a system that can control/limit the power and surpervision…(yes, there is not a perfect system in the world, just some are a little better.) How do we know if Jxxx and Hx are not worse than Shen Shui Bian? (the system has ensured that we’ll never know)

Back to the topic (this is not @ Carol or anyone)
As ”me” has pointed out earlier - ”why people believe that china needs to be controlled at the moment is because of all the controlling theyve done over the past.. its a fear of the chaos that would surely ensue…”

So basically the logic is, I believe it’s called ”Circular Logic” (where one bullshit argument is proven by another bullshit argument until your original argument is proven by itself) - because there was no democracy, so people are not ready for democracy. Because people are not ready for democracy, so we should not have democracy. Because we should not have democracy, there will not be democracy. Because there is no democracy, so people will never be ready for democracy….

Because we’ve been hearing one voice. So we are not ready for two voices (because we cannot choose which is good or bad). So we should not hear two voices. So we should listen to only one voice. So we will never be ready for two voices….

Thanks Junde for the fun. I’m done with the topic since I’m just repeating myself.

(1) Of course you are correct, the larger the amount of people, the more difficult it is to manage. But, I believe Sarah’s point was that it’s disingenuous to use the large population as an excuse for unrelated ailments. I present an example. You have a very, very obese person. Naturally, they run slowly and painfully. This is understandable. And, we can find ways to address this person’s obesity and hopefully get them back to a healthy state. However, let’s say this obese person also gets a 30/100 on their math exam. As an excuse, this person says, “But, I’m so fat!” Instead of presenting a sweeping excuse, we should analyze the problem to find the root(s) and act accordingly.

(3) “To choose when and how to open ppl’s mind up is not our duty, it’s the policy of China gov. ” I’m not sure what you mean by this. Are you trying to say it’s the government’s decision to make, and we just have to shutup and take it and we don’t have a right to discuss this? Probably not, right? Furthermore, the government serves the people (为人民服务). This is a cornerstone of Western government but it is also enshrined in the constitutition of the Chinese government.